For The Nation Podcast
Do you find that predictability sucks the life out of you? Or maybe feel an anxiety about being able to fit everything you care about into your life? Perhaps you crave variety and have an insatiable curiosity? Well, Welcome to For The Nation Podcast. For The Nation (FTN) podcast is all about connecting with people & seeing the world through their eyes. We talk about their passions and how philosophies brought them to where they are now. Our chief objective at FTN however, is to GIVE GREATLY and provide value that you can take and apply to your own life. You might hear from a Finance Professional one week, and a Restauranteur the next; but the lessons still apply.Thank you for tuning in and welcome to the FTN Family.
For The Nation Podcast
Exploring Challenges in Men's Development and Mental Health | Mike Frazier | FTN Ep. 42
Strap yourself in for a mind-expanding journey as we host Mike Frazier, a dynamic author, speaker, entrepreneur, and podcast host. He brings to the table a wealth of knowledge on mental health in the workplace, a pressing issue in the era of AI and remote work. Unearthing the importance of open mental health conversations, especially among men, Mike and his innovative initiative 'YokayBro' promise to bring a refreshing perspective to the table.
In this episode, we navigate the increasingly common terrain of remote work and its impact on talent management. As Mike shares his inspiring journey of building a successful business, we gain insights into maintaining the delicate balance between work and personal life, especially in a work-from-home scenario. His emphasis on respect and boundary-setting in the workplace sends a powerful message about how to maintain mental well-being while staying productive.
As we wrap up, we venture into some thought-provoking realms, exploring the challenges that men face in their development, the pitfalls of artificially creating issues in the workplace, and the paramount importance of curiosity and self-discovery. We reflect on the essence of finding purpose and satisfaction in work, and Mike's insights will surely inspire you to look at your work life with a renewed perspective. It's a power-packed episode that you won't want to miss, so tune in and get ready for a game-changing conversation!
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Those soft skills, those core skills the ability to work well within a team, to be responsible, be adaptable to, to be able to, you know, come in and have a different viewpoint with a co-worker and not lose your shit and collect your box Pardon me, can I use that term? I'm sorry and but just change that.
Speaker 2:You get that bottom right button. Hit that bottom right button, there you go.
Speaker 1:Keep your finger on that. Keep your finger ready Like quick drama. Grow on that thing, baby, beep, beep, beep, beep. You, mother, we ought to do that just for the fun of it, but no me to throw all your crap in a box, you know, because someone has a different viewpoint than you and or to be you know. I'm telling you right now that mental health and well-being is the next, as AI will naturally affect and impact everything, from, you know, the staffing profession to to human resources and everything else. What's not going to go away is the mental health and well-being of those individuals in the roles.
Speaker 2:What is up everyone? I am your host, Mike Wojcik, and this is for the Nation Podcast. Today's guest is an author, a speaker, an entrepreneur, a podcast host and all-around groovy dude. That is Mike Frazier. So, without further ado, let's get to the episode and then you let me know. Are we recording both sides? Awesome, Alrighty, Mike Frazier, thank you so much for allowing me the time to do this podcast interview with you. I think you're a super interesting guy and I think I resonate with a lot of what you do, at least from what I can find online Groovy, so this is a cool opportunity for me.
Speaker 1:I like it and thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:So just to kind of give everyone an idea of who you are you're an author, speaker, entrepreneur, podcast host. You own Peak Talent Capital Solutions, work Plus Brain Consulting. You do Tea it Up For Kids and then you do Skull Again. Did I miss anything? That's it, man.
Speaker 1:Actually I got confused there for a moment. I forgot you were talking about me. That's a little much Hard charger man, I love it. But you know, you got to do what you got to do.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:You got to stay relevant. Yeah, I hear that. Keep the brain moving in the right direction.
Speaker 2:So before we kick off the interview, I got to ask Yo-K bro.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Yo-k bro, I'm doing fantastic. I love it Even better. We love that. My partner in crime on that one, Russell Sable, he'll love to hear that Awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I thought it was cool, Like it's like a. It's an easy way to, you know, get into a topic that could be a little bit sensitive or hard to talk about, you know Right.
Speaker 1:So it's a nice smooth transition into that. I like it and we've had fun with it and we've gotten a lot more men talking about that mental health subject by doing that that's. I wanted something that would resonate but also, as you point out, a little bit more of a smoother transition into the conversation, because men don't like talking about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I hear you. Yeah, it's something I guess is kind of I don't speak to my me being naive in my younger self, but like mental health. To me originally it wasn't like a big deal, but as you get older, a little bit more wiser, you speak to people and you learn about, you know some of the damage that it does to people, and men specifically. It's right.
Speaker 1:It's interesting it's changed dramatically as well. I mean, I don't, I know for a fact that years ago, even in business, it was a topic that we it was taboo, yeah, in fact, if you had mental health issues in you know, the good old days, the 80s, the 90s and on into the double knots before COVID it was becoming a hot topic of discussion due to generational changes and you, you know we can talk about that at another time if you'd like. But I found that in the years that since COVID, it's like a bit of booster shot for it. Right, it's like steroids, yeah, and it is at every age level.
Speaker 1:I mean young, you know, young like me and you right, right, right Laugh laugh and also, but from another standpoint, I believe it's important that we must start talking more about it. So that's why Russell and I did that, and we're having a really good time with it.
Speaker 2:It's awesome. Yeah, I definitely want to talk about it, I, as we get to the talent management part of what you do, right, I think work from home contributes to that a little bit, if not a lot.
Speaker 1:It does, it does so.
Speaker 2:I'd love to get your take on that, but first, of all, that's not meaning to interrupt you.
Speaker 1:That's. You're the first person that has admitted that. That I know it's uh, with the work from home, it's, it's, it's very it's. There's a great bias there, yeah, and you're either all in on it and you'll find everything to support that, or you're you know, you're actually, you can think from both sides of your brain and you understand that some people don't do it. Well, yeah, it can be mentally draining and actually harm mental health of some individual.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, um, not to get too much off on a tangent, but myself I'm, I'm pretty, um, what do you call the word? Not introvert, extroverted, right. And you know, to me, being alone like that for extended period of time would just drive me up a wall, and I know that I wouldn't stay focused.
Speaker 1:You know what's really odd? And it's is, I've actually laughed of a girl and say girl, a lady that works for me and, uh, rather introverted, and then another that works for me that is, I would say, very introverted. Both had jobs at one point where they were working primarily from home and it damaged. They said it was very tough on them. No, you would believe. Well, introverts would love to be alone.
Speaker 2:No, it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, always like that. So, uh, yeah it it. It affects people across the across the range.
Speaker 2:That's. That's really interesting too. Uh, yeah, we'll get into that a little bit later, but, um, I guess first, why don't you kind of introduce yourself, share with the listeners, um, who you are, how you came to be the Mike Frazier you are today? Oh gosh.
Speaker 1:Uh, a lot of failure.
Speaker 2:I like that. I like that, though I'm I'm a big proponent of the phrase fail fast, fail forward, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:A lot of failure, a lot of experimentation, but, uh, I think that you know, most of all it was was what got me to where I am right now is, just, you could. Some may call it courage, you know others may call it just pure stubbornness. You know you just, I hate to fail, but especially if there was something I could do to prevent that failure. Right, you're going to fail, there's no doubt about it. It's how you process that failure. You know how they say how fast you get up after you fall down. But where I am now has been just me back in the good old day of just humping, uh, hustling, yeah, back when hustle was. You know you talk about hustle culture. That's the only culture you had if you were going to get ahead, yeah, and you had to be prepared to do more than those around you. And I think the only thing that really made me stand out, as I was always willing to do that much more.
Speaker 1:I was always the guy that say oh, I'll take that. You know, even when I broke into my profession, I was young and I had to. Just no one was going to give me anything. You know when, when the pecking order, I was on the lowest rung of the ladder and so if any topic came up, I wanted to learn about it.
Speaker 1:Seminars, anything I'll go. Uh, who wants to stay late tonight and help find this and that and do this and that? Me, I'll do it. That's what it was, and just, I believe. I always believe, because of my understanding, deep self-awareness, that really the only thing that got me through to where I am right now is that persistence and wishing to not give up and take on more and do a little bit more. You know, we hear nowadays about work life balance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I don't know if I hold. I sorry to interrupt you, but it's like I understand what people say when they say they want work life balance. But I also think, like a healthy work environment, like you shouldn't want to get away like they do today.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I actually don't believe that. I believe that the only type of work life balance that there is is what you need to do in the moment to get to whatever you're wishing to achieve. So let's say that we want to, 10 years from now, be relaxing on the beach, but we got to hustle now. That's the balance. So you actually tilt that sometimes into what you have to do to get to where you wish to be, and I think that when we talk a lot about everyone believes that just ought to be a 50-50 split or a bounce.
Speaker 1:Now I can tell you, in my early years there was no such thing, of course, because it was all work, work, work. And I got in trouble for actually leaving early when my first daughter was born, when my wife was in labor, when I worked for someone else Really, yeah, it was frowned on. Man, I'm telling you, I was glued to a desk, couldn't go eat lunch, couldn't do anything. We were just hump, hump, hump. You know, hustle, hustle. But with the way I run my company now, or our company that we have is it is. I understand that people have families and that they just get out, and when you respect that, they'll give their all, they'll give their all. You don't have to force someone to be at a desk at a certain time of day. Sometimes you know, just for that presentiaism or presentiaism, pardon me, just you're there so they can see you that you're there. Right, I want the people that are there. I know that they're working and if they're even if they're not there, they're probably working.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people, it really comes down to people just wanting to be heard and understood. I believe.
Speaker 1:Certainly.
Speaker 2:And yeah, now, now, as you say, with the presentiaism, there's been a quiet quitting. I'm sure you've heard of this quiet quitting. Now they got loud quitting, which is basically, yeah, you familiar with that term, now Familiar with all of those terms and I can't.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm writing a book. Actually, one of the books I'm writing after I get through these other two books, I've been right is called that Much More. And and you know it's funny because I made a joke the other day I don't think I'll ever finish this thing, because every time I think when I'm close, another stupid acronym comes up or some other way of describing a slacker or describing well. I just don't feel like doing this or I don't like this job and I don't really want to go find another one because it pays well, like some. Maybe I can back off a little bit and no one will notice. I just don't get that and I'm certain people would disagree, but that's exactly what that is.
Speaker 1:And it is not. It's not a new thing. It's always been there, I can tell you. I've been in the workforce maybe a little longer and dealt with a lot of people. Those people have always existed. We just didn't spend a lot of time glamorizing them. We just we didn't like it. And if you didn't want to be a part of this team, then that's fine, especially nowadays when you're driving around and there's a help on it. Sign on every building I drive past.
Speaker 2:It's yeah, go do something about your situation. Take an ownership.
Speaker 1:Exactly, but don't drag your team or your business down. I think that's just that's thievery I don't agree with and I don't like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. Have you always been like a hard charger like this, like just ready to get after it, like from the early age you were like this yes, I didn't have a choice.
Speaker 1:My history is you know it's. I came from an abusive home, I'll just put it that way and I was. I've been on this. I was on the streets when I was younger. I actually lived, you know, on the streets for a little while when I was very young, and you know I was. I write about a little bit of it in some of the books. But for some reason, if you look at my family, I I come from a long line of of what we would call Kennedy Democrats, not the current you know that's going RFK junior Democrats.
Speaker 1:There you go, and. But I was always more conservative values and and even libertarian at, at, at and along some of the lines, but I knew that I had to do more than everyone else. You know I start off one of the books I'm writing. I try not to talk about it a lot because I don't want to opify it, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it did have a lasting impression on me and because I was told pretty much daily, you'll never amount to anything and I'm, it peaved me off. It made me angry at a very early age and I worked off of anger for the longest time because I was in this mode of well, I'll prove, I will prove them wrong and that I think that's what pushed me for the longest time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then that'll rot your soul. So you better start your work on your mind, because you can't just funnel off and feed off of Use that anger as fuel forever.
Speaker 2:Interesting. Yeah, so I could see how like you're upbringing and what you just explained, how you have all these different avenues. So tee it up for kids. Right, I'm a. Well, do you want to explain why the mission of tee it up for kids? Well, first explain what tee it up for kids is.
Speaker 1:Tee it up for kids is a charity I put together years ago and started. We started having a yearly golf tournament corporate golf tournament around it and we're fixing to bring it back. It went away due to COVID and I've been so busy I just hadn't had a chance to work on it. But I brought it about because I truly believe in helping children and especially abused children. I'm very we support the one locally, of course A.
Speaker 2:Child Enrichment. I think that's all. Child Enrichment, yes.
Speaker 1:And then I also support one near my hometown in Bluntville, tennessee, a child Not Child Enrichment Child Advocacy Center in Bluntville. There I found out a long time ago, if I truly believe, I was lucky enough to find some mentors at a young age and that helped me as well, and I had people that could help me process all of this trauma that I had and at the same time, instill some good work, ethic and values in me, and I was very lucky to have that. Not a lot of kids have that and they don't have exposure to that, or they don't understand or they're scared or they. When you're an abused child, you just believe you're worthless and I never wanted another child to feel that way actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so. So that explains why that mission. I can definitely see why that mission is important to you and how the mental health aspect of it Very, very and that is the Skolligan aspect. Yes, before we get into that, I want to ask how much of a poor home environment affects professional life.
Speaker 1:Oh, tremendous amount. I believe there was. Actually, I was reading a study on this just the other night. They continue to explore more and more.
Speaker 1:It can have a tremendous effect on children, of course, and as they try to morph into adulthood, the poor home life or what you're confronted with as a child, whether it's physical or emotional abuse it weighs your mind down, and you do have. You might either be in a constant state of always holding yourself back, even beyond introverted, terrified to come out of a shell that you were forced into, maybe even and then in my case it was I was just I don't know what. I've been asked many times what was the switch? And I just don't know. I just I think it's how we're wired, but a lot of children and a lot of young adults, and a lot all the way into adulthood, carry this trauma from such an early age and they've never learned to deal with it or face it, and it continues to impact them. They'll pull back, they'll stop instead of going forward, They'll withdraw, and that mental health aspect is absolutely massive when it comes to our success.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can't remember the name of this study, but you just reminded me of it. They did this, like it was K through 12 or something like that, where they told teachers that certain kids were gifted academically, yes, I mean, and they weren't necessarily actually academically gifted, but the teachers had this in their mind that they could spend a little bit more time or something with them, like really work with them, and they performed much better than the control group, right, and that just goes to show positive reinforcement and just putting time into kids' works.
Speaker 1:Of course I mean and putting time into anyone works. I mean I think that you better do it while they're young, because we both, we all, know how stubborn we can be in all the In adulthood. After you become a grow up, we hope into a man and a woman and you're trying to move forward in the world. You are processing differently than you were when you were a child, in those formative years, and I don't think that it's. I think that's why it's harder to get adults on track or help sometimes than it is to intervene, intercede and help these children and give them positivity and reinforcement and show them that everyone out there is not a raving lunatic or not everyone's going to abuse them and it goes along those lines.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that has. I think you teach positive psychology. That has something to do with, maybe that's work plus brain. Yes that you do that. Can you expand on that a little bit?
Speaker 1:Well, that's all around how we, what we take into and positive psychology is something that's a fairly new science thing. It was in 1998 and Seligman announced it and it became a branch, a soft branch at first, and I remember when I first started working on these things, these were considered to be like hippie ideas you know even about Really. Yeah, I mean you didn't talk about emotional intelligence, it didn't really matter, right. And then we found out, boy, it does. And positive psychology touches on that side of us as what we're doing with our minds to make our lives and our careers better.
Speaker 1:It was extremely important to me to get involved because I actually I fell into it when I started burning out and also seeing people in my profession. I was always fascinated with failure, especially if it was preventable, why people would just allow themselves to fail or push themselves to failure. It's almost like they had a, they were purposefully doing it, and I don't believe that's the case. I just believe they didn't know any better or even know their own minds or what they were capable of doing. And then I said, well, I looked at and even studies will support this, you know it's. I think the last one I saw is 89% of failure on the job is attitudinal and behavioral as opposed to 11%. Skill Really.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, but. So it's not the fact that a person can't drive the forklift or be taught to drive the forklift, it's do you know. And if you say, well, why don't we do a good, you know, some work on this person's EQ? I don't need EQ, they just need to go out there, know which levers you know and that type of thing you know, get on it and understand. No, here's the gas pedal, there's the break.
Speaker 1:We found out that when people start to fail, if you look at it across the board I've tracked it as well Most of the time it's just based on the mindset, it's based on those what we typically in the past have called you know our work ethic, and then you know soft skills, which really are core skills. Right, and? But no, that's that's the. That's pretty much the gist. I started watching it and being a professional in what I was doing. Well, isn't it my job to make that problem go away? Because if I'm just managing the same problem day after day after day, expecting different results, well, that's just insanity, right? That's the actual definition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally.
Speaker 1:Right, so I decided that I would go deeper.
Speaker 2:So when you say your profession, I'm just kind of curious what is the profession? What would you categorize yourself as? Because I see it as like I just, I guess human optimization, I use that, I use that actually, yes, I mean, it's human performance.
Speaker 1:But my profession I started out in was human. You know the human resources field and staffing and you know people always align staffing with just an agency or an. You know just an act or you know one off event. Right, somebody had come over to more and more and pull some weeds or do whatever. It's far beyond that. It's the full gambit of talent management. It is everything you know involved in that find, hire, keep, and so that's where my profession started and it's evolved over the years. Because I was just not satisfied with the pad answers. Yeah, I just couldn't keep watching the same thing and not try to participate at a certain level, participate at a much deeper level. It drew me in because I'm keenly interested in other people's success. I really am like yours. I think it's great that you guys are doing this. It's wonderful. Man Appreciate it and you know you talk about, you know you being young, but you have that thing, that courage, and that's what's required.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of people don't even give themselves the opportunity to fail Because they're so afraid of just that word, I guess.
Speaker 1:You know afraid of looking like an idiot. And you know I tell someone all the time I have no problem looking like an idiot, I do it quite well actually Ask my wife, I do it every day yeah take a poll.
Speaker 1:You know. So I mean I think it's when you say you know I was talking to someone the other day about I do sales training with you know, hoping sales professionals that as well, you know, hoping to keep their mind to where it needs to be. I was actually talking to a group the other day and that is no more than deciding what your biggest fear is Like to be a great salesperson. All you're doing is flipping the fear, whereas in most people will be fearful of having the conversation, shaking the hand, making the phone call. Great salespeople are just terrified of what will happen to them if they don't do those things. So they're minimized in their mind. That is no more than a reframing. And yeah, you reframe. It's like me. I have my career.
Speaker 1:Like I told you, you know, in the beginning is failure? I mean you're learning from it, you're processing forward. And you know, in my day, back in my day, not long ago, but back in the good old days, you had a you learn faster there weren't as many safetiness, there weren't as many do-overs, we didn't have them. I mean I can tell you right now and although I will say I can't tell you how many times I was fired from the job I had before I started my company. My owner loved to fire me and rehire me before I could get my stuff loaded in the truck. You know, because I was always pushing that. You know I guess I'm an aggravating fellow sometimes to be around, but I think you got to be, you got to push.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that, so I want to take it to Skulligan. I kind of want to continue this conversation that we're having, but I want to take it to Skulligan before I forget. Can you just kind of explain, I guess, what Skulligan is in the first place? Because it's got to be golf.
Speaker 1:It is, and we decided to actually rename Skulligan. We presented it not too long ago, Maybe a week or so ago. We've changed it to, you know, brothers in balance, and because that's going to be the actual, and then Skulligan just was the golf arm. We did it as a funsy thing because my buddy, Russell Sable, he works at the Augusta National, he is also getting ready to go pro and his sister just played, just played seventh yesterday, Wednesday, yesterday, seventh in the Georgia women's golf open. And so we sponsor, I sponsor her, we sponsor her and but no, it's just a way for us to have fun, to talk about it Mulligan, take a Mulligan Skulligan, stopping, pausing. You're allowed to do over once in a while, Not all the time, but you know I just railed against it, you know.
Speaker 1:But but you know but in mental health you are. I'll just put it that way Mental health. You should pause, man, you know and that's what we're doing.
Speaker 1:We just decided I went to him and I don't think Russell would get mad that I talk about this because we've openly discussed this on our podcast. You know he was going through some fairly rough things and having his mental health was depleted, to say the least, and I thought it was a good way. And also I knew that I was dealing with my own struggles of I found during COVID, we were being told constantly, you know, keep everybody rally, keep everybody moving forward as a leader. You know leaders, you know, keep people up.
Speaker 1:No one was saying, hey, how do you feel, man? Or how do you feel, ma'am? No one was asking the leaders how they felt. You were just supposed to be constantly giddy, constantly prepared to, you know, almost be like the, you know, have a sofa there and, hey, lay down, tell me, you know, tell me about your childhood. You were supposed to always be giving and helping people, which I believe you're supposed to do. I had no problem with that, but I noticed a lot of leaders falling apart at the seams during that period of time and on top of that, the vast majority were men, and we started losing a lot of friends to suicide, and male friends to suicide, and I just said, nope, we need to have a deeper discussion about this.
Speaker 2:I like that and it's it's very true. I think it's um.
Speaker 2:it's sad to see I come out of the veteran community, so you know the whole 22 a day thing and it's uh, I had the opportunity to have shields and stripes on this podcast. They're newer, nonprofit out of North Carolina, but now they got one in Phoenix. Um, basically it's for law enforcement, veterans, first responders, everybody that whole gambit. And um, it was like a holistic approach. So you got like physical training. You got the psych therapy, occupational therapy, physical training, physical therapy, dietitian, the whole, everything, the whole thing, the full market.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like talking to them really opened up my eyes. The guy, the president, his name is Steve Nesbitt, his story, just that's the one that kind of like woke me up, like, wow, yeah, like you don't? These leaders, nobody like really looks out for, nobody thinks about them.
Speaker 1:No, I mean and I it's not intentional, I mean you know, but but you know you're expected, when you're in a leadership role, to be strong yeah, you're expected to be okay, and then you're also expected to, you know, to listen and have empathy and all of these other great groovy things we expect our leaders to have, whether they be male or female. But you very rarely does any. Is anyone helping you look out for yourself? And when you're also as a leader and some you don't have time sometimes or you don't believe you do.
Speaker 1:You know my wife will say she's gotten in habit of how much longer you're going to be thinking tonight or how much longer you're going to be. You know, because I do, I go home. It's very difficult for me to cut it off. It really is. I go home, I start working, I start pulling up things and researching and doing all that. It's very difficult for me to shut it off, and that that's been something I've had to work on that started to impact my mental health. Yeah, so, because when you're always on the grind, it wears you down.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you never feel like you're productive enough. Exactly, and that's it. You know you got to learn to take a backseat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, what sure what sure it's either perfection or purpose, and I've gotten more into purpose. You know I'm never gonna be perfect at what I do, but if it's, if it's meeting my purpose and feeding my soul, I'm really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah what? I think there's a Phrase out there Don't let perfect be the enemy of great, or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, it's something along those lines. It is I. What was it? Don't let that used to always hear from a buddy of mine. Don't let the good destroy the grower, the Great destroy the good. Yeah, that drive towards greatness. I forget exactly how you said it, but it is. You're in a calm, in that constant state of perfection. And another thing it goes back to when we're talking about in business or any, even in life, when you're having these failures and you're constantly looking, or you're being just too dog on, hard on yourself. Right, you know you are expecting that you'll. You do expect you won't make mistakes. You do expect that. And then you see this nowadays to where People get knocked down and, man, it takes them a while to get up, sometimes even some don't. You know people and I, you know we. I think that has a lot to do with infantilization and all of that stuff. That's been going on forever. But you know it's totally different discussion infantilization.
Speaker 2:Yes, what's that all about.
Speaker 1:That's this thing that we've processed, that we've gone through over the last couple of decades. It's just in a constant stream of feeding, infantile images, messages, silliness, gaming. You know, some people can game and that not affect them and impact their lives, others can't. Yeah, infantilization is also the helicopter parents and the making excuses for Johnny and you know, you know, don't let him fall, don't let him fail. Everyone gets a blue ribbon, everyone gets the pizza party. We've dumbed people backwards, we've, we've, we've wiped off a lot of resolve and we've, we've just absolutely Infantilized so many, you know, I mean times have I heard, you know, the so-and-so, so-and-so is getting ready to Break up with so-and-so, so-and-so, and well, he, he's lazy, he's this, he's. It seems to impact me and a whole lot worse than it does women. They stay children way too long.
Speaker 2:Interesting. There's a I like watching a lot of Dave Ramsey and they just had my grow on and they went over some stats and I think there's seven million men currently unemployed. Yes, by choice. Yeah, I saw that. Why do you think that this disproportionately affects men?
Speaker 1:Well, I don't believe that men, by design, are meant to be sedentary creatures and I also don't believe that we're meant to. I believe that we are. You know, for hunter-gatherers. You know, if you break it down into that, the hunters, you know you're not honing many skills laying on a sofa sucking down potato chips or fighting, fighting little Demons and crap on, you know, killing the Little elf in the sugar cookie forest and all that garbage. What are you really doing there? And you're not really honing your skill. But also, at the same time, without going out there and taking the risk and being exposing yourself, and you know, back in, you know, like when I say, even when I move, when I came in a young age into my you know profession, I started off on the bottom rung and you had to be Purposeful, you had to be very aggressive.
Speaker 1:We seem to have been wiping away male. You know this. We're labeling everyone. Now it can't be too aggressive. You're a toxic male. That's a bunch of garbage. There's toxic females as well. I don't know if you've met them. I have. You know. I Met one just the other day and she's scary. She's scary and any man I'd a man I'd ever meet. We started labeling, we started all this other nonsense and we just absolutely I truly believe that we as men are not meant to be these Just lazy. You know, back in my day you say cause more snake cost. One is a bum. Now you wear it like a badge of metal. It's nuts. Yeah, I truly believe that. That we started removing manhood from the equation of helping boys become men and helping them understand, like you know, how you should treat a woman, how you should, how you should work, teaching them work ethic. Yeah, how did all that come about? There's all kinds of things that happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you know I'm this gets overplayed on pretty much every podcast you listen to. But the whole cycle of Good men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create weak times. Weak times create good men or strong men. What you can change, those words out.
Speaker 1:It's a whole cycle, right so, but it's funny you said that I wrote down something earlier.
Speaker 2:Regarding men's mental health and men in general, and I think that Men, young men in particular, I would say between 1835, like that, the typical come up of your profession age. I think there's a yearning for responsibility, yes, and I think that there's, for some reason, this, this looming thought that response, responsibility has to be given to someone, and that's not the case. Right, you can take responsibility, that's called ownership, certainly, and I think that that's really what it is.
Speaker 2:People just aren't aren't accountable to themselves anymore, and they haven't been taught how to be right.
Speaker 1:You know, when you I don't know how you, who you or how you were brought up or who raised you, but I was raised in that environment. I was, I was thrust to the wolves pretty rapidly. I had to either, you know, come out of it or, lest I become a part of it. And I know that for a fact. We have a general, we have a generational thing here to where, you know, with YouTube and social media, and you know all of this, you know we start doing the whole comparison, all of these things, and then we, we spend way too much time on social media, video gaming. You didn't used to have all of these disruptions to that cycle that when a young boy starts to go into man's life and also you could say, well, the destruction of the two-parent home, and we can blame it on so many things, but right now society is allowing it.
Speaker 1:We're allowing young men and young women for the matter, but mostly men, which I'm focused on. Dog on it really. I mean, they've got to learn how to fail. They've got a, you know, mom, leave him alone. I remember during COVID I said something to my wife one time. I said, if I hear another mother talk to her about it, and you know, and she'd say, well, I'm not gonna let my baby go to school in this and the baby's in college, it's not a baby anymore. Yeah, I mean, come on. And I remember looking at my wife and saying, man, we're deep on this. You know that's there's so many factors and that could be the infantilization of it. It could really. It's a broad subject, but you all know that it's a broad subject. But you are basically taking these young men and emasculating them on purpose. Society, parents, yeah, schools, everyone's got a hand in this right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I so. I, I wasn't a great student. I think a lot of some people might be at least the ones that I know now might be surprised to hear that, but I was like a below average student for sure. I just I couldn't you look at every single one of my report cards? One of the things with Michael socializes too much. Well, and here you are today socializing.
Speaker 1:Love it. Yeah, or Mike.
Speaker 2:Michael never lives up to his full potential in class, for real life is his you know potential yeah you know that stuff I don't think school it's not that it's not built for young men, but like there's so much going on that I don't know certain things are pushed other than others, you know it's a lot worse now.
Speaker 1:From what I understand and you know, I I actually believe that school does more to rip. It wants to make drones and clones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the nine to five worker that well, even if you look back from in the very beginning of it. I mean, you know the history of it the school bail, why and then the factory bail Releasing you to launch or releasing you at the end of the day, is exactly where that originated Really, to prepare the school children for the shop floor. Yeah, that's exactly why it was done, and you know. And if anyone doesn't believe me, they go back and research it, it's there.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In the very beginning of education in the 20th century it was. It's pretty well known that all we're doing is Get them through and get them ready for the shop floor. That was what it was. I don't think there's ever been a Drive to, unless you take a child and send them to one of the magnet schools or something of that nature To truly help a young person develop their creativity and their voice and their identity. You know we have all this identity garbage going on right now. You you pretty much know who you are and but to help you explore how that type of person when they say you weren't living up to your Potential in the classroom, I don't even know what that means.
Speaker 2:It means that I wasn't doing the homework.
Speaker 1:Well, you were just yeah, I didn't know whether you was just either that or just laying around like a potted plant, I don't know. But so you just wouldn't. You know and, but you don't know, and and I don't know. I'm with you on that, I think. But I truly believe that school does more to rob us of our creativity and Just basically wants to pump out drones. Yeah, you know all, you know this whole thing. Everyone has to think alike, everyone has to be alike. That's nuts.
Speaker 2:Compliance is a huge thing. Well, yeah out of school. It's like yeah, the one thing I remember that irritated me the most when it came to like math or just something creative, is Like I've always been like the out-of-the-box thinker type of person and they'd be like no, no, no, you have to solve it this way. You're like if I get to the same answer exactly doesn't make a damn difference, it doesn't then you could have taken off your shoe and used your toes.
Speaker 1:What does it really matter, as long as you got there and what was simpler for you? And also, I do things a lot differently as well. I understand that. I promote it. See, I have a rule around me I like to be disagreed with. I Really enjoy it. Well, you have to. You don't want to hire a bunch of yes people. Yeah, you know, and if anybody disagree, the person disagrees with me more than anyone. Any person is my assistant at work, grace. She just loves to disagree with me.
Speaker 2:I think it's her favorite.
Speaker 1:I think it's her favorite thing in the world, actually, and I like it, though, because she, through those Disagreements, polite disagreements, yeah, stress she's. She's smarter than I am on a lot of things, yeah, so I'm. I like that because I don't know everything. I'm not Nippitunton and I don't know everything, but I can tell you this that you know sometimes, and sometimes she'll disagree and I won't agree with the Disagreement, but we, I like that. I believe that you're supposed to be, you're supposed to have people kind of help. You see different facets of things. Everyone has a different skill and they also have a different perception. So you, you know, and also, unless it's truly biased one way or the other, you want to receive that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we've Fallen from that and in what you're saying, where you like to have people disagree with you around you, I think. Now I mean you can't if, for example, the right and left, politically left and right, if you don't agree with something, it must mean that you hate that thing, that demonize it. I can't stand that like nobody can have a Tactful disagreement anymore and so like it's almost a rarity, but it makes you like that much, I guess, more like hardened, more Like able to take on, you know, new ideas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that you've got a.
Speaker 1:You've got to be able to look at it and with a broader perspective, and and you're very right there and whenever we're wanting everyone. You know, I don't because someone disagrees with me does not mean that they're my enemy. It just means they may have a different. You know, everyone's walked a different path, yeah, and everyone's done it differently. I've done it differently than other people. What may work for me may not work for someone else, and but I can't tell you this that the inability to accept criticism, and even if it's constructive, it takes me back to that infantilization that's. You know we're acting like a bunch of babies right be disagreed with.
Speaker 1:We, the nanny, nanny boo boo, crowd out there. You know, everyone's waiting for someone to screw up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have a theory on how diversity like has Essentially likes polarized us. Yes, I'm a big proponent of diversity of thought, different perspectives. I love that. But I think diversity has been hijacked by, you know, identity politics and optical stuff it has, and I think that if we focus too much on diversity in that sense, we lose what unifies us, and I think that that's affecting this nation Both politically, corporately, and just communal, communally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a brilliant statement actually. I mean, it's very, very insightful because that's exactly what's going on right now and you know the, the DEI initiatives and all of that going on. You know, I've actually had people tell me that they don't like teaching DEI or being involved in it, because it polarizes, yeah, divides, their teams even more. Sometimes, you know, when you've got the right type of blend of so many things, and it starts with mindset, ensuring that everyone is is involved and and, and there's a complimentary.
Speaker 1:There is such thing as a, as we each have an individual mindset, but then you have a corporate mindset or a, or a building mindset or a store mindset, when everyone is looking out for one another and you're and you're, you're coming together and you can do that, you, you don't find a lot of that disagreement, you don't find people worried about anything other. Then is Johnny a part of the team, is he helping us get where we need to be? Nobody cares about anything, any other thing about other than nor should they. Then just Johnny contributing? Yeah, and I think that by doing that, as you just stated it is, it's it's continually just cracking and Fracturing what we have and it's just ridiculous for the lack of better terms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the DEI thing. That was one of the questions I kind of had planned for units how has DEI affect staffing and talent capital management?
Speaker 1:Well it's. It's affected it quite a bit. Actually, we've stopped what we're doing and we're telling a lot of people sometimes that they're different and they didn't believe that they were. They just came to work and they were participating and I thought we were a good team here and I thought that. So now, all of a sudden, why do I need to look at you differently, or you differently, or you look at me differently? I've actually I've heard a lot more Horror stories from it than I have anything else.
Speaker 2:Yeah it's.
Speaker 1:It's not working, but it's generally how it's presented as well. You can have DEI initiatives that are more purposeful and Understanding and, instead of trying to paint everything with a small brush or part of me with a wide brush, you're now looking at each individual, and these individuals are coming to work every day and and happy with one another. Why are you tinkering with it? Now? Of some, we need to tell you that you oh, wait a minute now You're getting along really well, but hey, we'd really like to screw that up, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean you know we don't have anything better to do.
Speaker 1:You know we just think we're gonna come to work day and create problems, and I can tell you that I do know for a fact that a lot of leaders do that on purpose when they start having issues of their own. I've dealt with it before, so I'm not trying to equate Deon the same level as any type of you know devil music or anything like that, but I will say that it does not have the impact. A lot of organizations Find that it or led to believe and then they find that it has yeah, the best way to say so for those listening.
Speaker 2:They don't know what DEI is, its diversity, equity and inclusion. I'm about to throw out another acronym, esg environmental, social and governance, one of the things that I think we're kind of talking about. And Larry Fink, the CEO of BlackRock, big asset management company, right, he said now he's like pushing back on ESG, like the term, because he's like it. It just draws too much controversy, it doesn't do any good now.
Speaker 1:Well, it's a lot of symbolism over substance and so signal. Yeah, so is, and I hate to say this. I don't want to get a bunch of people upset about this, but anything you know, when we continue to try to find issues where none really are and we're just creating things, I truly believe that most of this stuff is created just so you to give consultants more to bill for.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love that you said that I've also had this hypothesis that life is so good right now that we just we create some sort of drama like we're just finding crap man. I mean think about, like the typical suburban woman who's like they're gonna find something to complain about, even though they're driving the Escalade, living in a mansion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've. You know I'm a huge gratitude guy. I'm. I'm so lucky to be where I am right now and I've never found time Knowing from whence I came to where I would like to be. I've never really believed that spending time Bitching or worrying about things I'm. That's my stoic side, you know it's. If I have zero control over it, then why is it gonna bother me? But yeah, we're just. We're just looking for issues, we're looking to create problems and I think that honestly, well, I mean, it's like you know, manufacturing these problems and these issues, like I said, it's it's More to bill for, more to. And also, when you have problems, you know when you create problems and you try to magnify where issues don't even exist, and I've seen that occur. You're now have oh, you've got purpose. I gotta put this fire out. You know I've got to handle this and you can try to make yourself look like a hero yeah and the problem wasn't even there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I play media for a lot of that stuff like the big media. You know, sometimes when you go around a community I think to myself like they say this issue is here. I don't see it, I got you could talk to anyone. Everyone's pretty kind pretty friendly. It's pretty rare, but you watch CNN or Fox, whoever yeah, name them. It's like the world's out.
Speaker 1:Put them in a bag and shake them up. It's all the same. And you know I can say that. Well, I just put it this way. I don't Is a star and I talk about this a lot. That's my wife, she. We talk about this. We don't run into negativity and Mean people and nasty people or racism or anything like that. We just don't because we are hell. We just have fun with everybody. Yeah, and I've always believed this. Like we walk in her store, she's gonna sell or do you gonna want to talk to everyone? I Love meeting people. That's what I do for a living. People are my business at every level, not just from a. You know sales, you know span or standpoint, it's. I'm deeply involved in human performance and everything and I love stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I really love stories, but when you reach out to people, it's in me. Yeah, when you reach out to people in that manner and you're truly interested in another human being and Respectful, you know that's my thing. You know, I've only had one instance here recently when a woman made a comment to me because I opened doors for everyone. I opened the door for ladies and me, and don't care who you are. I believe it's a gentlemanly thing to do. I'll open my wife's door at the truck. I, you know, close the door. I do all these things because that's how it was brought up.
Speaker 1:Later on in it and I had one woman say something I'm capable of opening my own door I said Well, I figured I'd just be helpful today and have a very nice day. In that type thing I don't take offense at things I mean, you know I. What do I care? You know you. I just always consider the source and let's keep on moving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. If you were to describe yourself with one word, what would it be? Oh, man. I know that it's kind of like a big question, but I just used the word groovy groovy, I'm bringing it back, yeah just just love it, man.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm, I'm perfectly cool with me. I mean I, I love what I do. I love the people I'm around, I get that I'm very blessed to do the things I enjoy and love, and on top of that, I really like to work to make a difference. So yeah, I'd use groovy.
Speaker 1:I like that and you can always go in if you want to insert another word later. You know he can, he can do the, the voiceover on it. You know, like you could say butt, head or something over top of it, right, but so funny. But no, I mean yeah, I can't think of another word groovy.
Speaker 2:I was. I, if I had, right now I'd say curious, you're just a curious person, yeah, well, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's a great word. I'll use that next time someone asked me that question.
Speaker 2:I think groovy is better, though I'll send you a nickel in the mail for giving it to me.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, no, I am very curious, I, I, yeah, I believe you have to be, don't you I?
Speaker 2:think so. That's how I describe myself.
Speaker 1:I mean, you certainly are we wouldn't be sitting here, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean this. So just to kind of give you some insight. This whole podcast started Based off curiosity. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. I went to high school. Like I said, I was just kind of like an average, below average student, didn't really want to go to college, ended up going because you know, all my friends were there. So I ended up going, changed my major about 14 different times, ended on broadcast journalism Well, it not. Ended two years in. So my four semester that was. I mean hindsight, that was probably the best choice. For that time I had a bad day. Ended up joining the army.
Speaker 1:I came home. This is a great story.
Speaker 2:That must have been a hell of a day, man, so I had a bad day.
Speaker 1:It was during the whole 2016 election.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow so like all the candidates came through. Yeah everyone was having a bad day.
Speaker 1:And I was being ostracized and.
Speaker 2:I was just like I'm sick of this, you know. So I came home and I said, mom, I'm joining the army. She's like no, you're not. And I was like, well, now I have to do it. Well, yeah, there, yeah.
Speaker 1:She should have said yes, baby, you're so hot, I had that idea.
Speaker 2:Forget it. That turned out to be the best decision of my life.
Speaker 1:I learned to take accountability. That's why.
Speaker 2:I think that's one of the most important things a person can do. But I learned a lot about myself. But I didn't take the time to figure out what I was going to do post-army. So I still like I pulled a contracting job. I still do that. I dislike it. I'm one of those people that you know I do it just because it pays well and I feel stuck there, even though I'm not. But I feel stuck there. But this podcast was a way for me to talk to people who loved what they do. Like I talked to sommeliers, I've talked to mayors, I've talked to restaurant tours authors, bunch of different people and I've just always been curious about them, like what drives you and you know the funny thing in doing it. I've learned that this is what I love doing connecting with people, learning about them, hearing their story, sharing it.
Speaker 1:We'll never have a bad day. Now will you? Yeah, I mean, I like that. I mean that's the way it's supposed to be. Well, that curiosity is, you know, and they say that curiosity, of course, is one of those traits that they're trying to get. Of course, everyone wants it around them. I want it around me. I'll give you an example of that. I'm just just that, how impressive that is to me. Or someone being curious, and it is a. It is a lost start. Actually, it's not emphasized enough. It is a mindset. Gracie. I go back to Grace. I call her Gracie Grace, my assistant. She I'll mention something Working around me is a little different.
Speaker 1:I, as I'm building things, I start with the end, where I'd like to be, and then I'll work backwards from it, and so I write a lot of stuff. I'm in the midst of writing these guides and all of these other things in the books. So I'll have an idea or I'll bring up a subject and I'll give you an example here. Recently I was writing on critical thinking, which is we need to really talk about critical thinking, but I was writing in and actually I'm using it in two different books, but one I wanted, and then also for a training program. And so I just mentioned it to Grace and I said I'm going to be giving you some things so I can, we can, start formatting.
Speaker 1:And then I go back in there like a couple of hours later and she's doing that and I just, you know, I'm going to start up. You know a full thing on her computer there about critical thinking. And I said, what are you doing? She said learning about what you're talking about. Now, that to me, man, I love that. How many, how many people do you know like that you could say I'm going to do this and they'll do the work. They'll go through the motions of doing the work, because just getting it done sometimes is not that big of a deal. You can fake your way through most of the stuff, but she's actually engaging in it. That is impressive to me. That curiosity she has is so important, especially in her role, and I'm going to tell you that it took me a while to find that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Took me a very, very long while to find that actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's just something you get through meeting people. Maybe it's like a natural trait of someone to be curious, I don't know, but I've just. I've always been around, you know a bunch of different cool people and you kind of pick up little cool stories and you're like I want to learn more about that.
Speaker 1:I want to learn more about this.
Speaker 2:I didn't think people are cool, man. Like people have such different experiences. It's so cool to hear, like a perspective on you know one thing and then you talk to another person and they have a completely different idea. And that's because of something that happened here. Right, right.
Speaker 1:Their journey, their sojourn, whatever. They've experienced it differently, and I can tell you that that, though beyond curiosity, is that ability to be a you know, to learn different things and be in that constant state of learning and then be adaptable as well. You know, everyone like you we were talking about earlier is sort of you know, standing on ground feeding cement.
Speaker 1:And I can tell you I've got a good friend of mine who he's a little bit more I'm more along the hard line, conservative and a lot of things. He and his wife were full Obama supporters and he is thanks that he's. And he said something to me. It was funny because we were actually having a beer and we were discussing and he said was telling me about it, and he said I hope that we can remain friends, but it was a joke and but I don't, I didn't know at the time. You know I turned it into a joke, but I think you know that it bothered him because but we don't, we can have an opinion around one another, but we don't try to berate the other one and beat them down with the opinion. He respects that I have a different point of view and in fact a lot of times he'll say I never thought about it that way. He's a professor, I'm a, you know, I do what I do and we then, when we come together with two totally different viewpoints, a lot of time on life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it does. I think that the berating thing, that's like it just causes more strife than it does. Good. It happened to me in a public speaking class. I gave a we had to give some like five minute random speech, like just like extemporaneous speech, right, and I was like I'll talk about why America is so great. And after the speech I was the only one out of the class that this happened to but the professor was like you know, you're wrong. This is why. This is why and I was, you know, kind of taking it back Someone else in the class was like why are you berating him? Like, you know, if you don't agree, who cares? Like, just move on, you're the professor. Like of course you're going to have the authority in this class, but you know that's, that's nuts, it's.
Speaker 1:it's wild that you that story is wild. I mean some of the stories I hear, actually from my friend who's a professor about teaching classes. Now, the difference now, and you know, I remember when I was in school. As opposed to how it is now, it's night and day. But you know he'll tell me these stories. I'm like you've got to be joking me. You know there's, you have no idea, you have no idea.
Speaker 1:And so you know, beyond the berating is is you know we see social media now and which I did I've got a Facebook page. I'm it's mostly pictures of my wife and I and most of my stuff that I put out. But I've noticed that you can put things out on. People will just just come in from nowhere and start assault, assaulting you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You're like what I had someone right I got to talk about. This is so funny. I had put out one of my posts and it was all just you know strong, groovy stuff, you know mindset, and where I was working on something and emotional intelligence or whatever. And someone came in and this identified as a, as a, as a transgender person, and started calling me all these evil names. And I'm thinking what I thought there for a moment. Maybe they posted this on the wrong person's feed, maybe I'm just mistaken for someone else, because what I had written didn't have anything to do. Yeah, it was a lot of then, on top of that, it was a lot of you know, biblical. You know hellfire, brimstone, all types of things and end of days and something, something, something. And I'm a transgender and I believe this, this, this, this and this, and I'm reading it and I'm like, what in the hell does that have to do with me? And the subject I just wrote about.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I just eased out of that one baby. I'm not going to engage, I'm not going to do any of that. So if you're out there listening and you come in, you just it's just block immediately. I don't do that. I don't understand why we feel, or that people feel, that it's okay to go attack someone else, especially a stranger. How bad is your world that you need to go attack a complete stranger?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it likely would never happen in person. Oh God, I think social media has been. It's a double-edged sword. Of course, it's great because you can connect with people throughout the world, but that's that keyboard bravery, right?
Speaker 1:It's really strange. I don't know, but you know I digress. I mean it just really it's bizarre where we've gotten to and how we're not paying enough attention to the very traits, attributes that young people and humans need to live their best life. That's all you're really trying to do. Why are we ripping that away? Why are we? You know, when you start talking about some of these things, people don't like soft skills and things of that, and over maybe the last 10 years or so, have our school systems gotten really serious about soft skills and mindset and things of that nature? I'm like, really, what is wrong here We've got to be giving young people and adults, and before they, especially before they enter the workforce?
Speaker 1:you know they're showing up on the doorstep of business, rather ignorant anyway of so many things. And then of course they're not mentally prepared.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and personally I think you know the whole craze. I'm sure you're familiar with it, with AI and all that. And tech is going to take over the jobs. To me now, soft skills are more important than they've ever been.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it will only increase. Yeah, it will only increase because AI will just whittle away some things, those soft skills, those core skills, the ability to work well within a team, to be responsible, to be adaptable, to be able to come in and have a different viewpoint with a co-worker and not lose your shit and collect your box. Pardon me, can I use that term? Sure, sorry, but yeah, just change that.
Speaker 2:Hit that bottom right button. Hit that bottom right button, there you go.
Speaker 1:Keep your finger on that, keep your finger ready, quick draw McGraw on that thing. Baby, you, mother, we ought to do that just for the fun of it, but no, I mean to throw all your crap in a box, you know, because someone has a different viewpoint than you and or to be you know. I'm telling you right now that mental health and well-being is the next, as AI will naturally affect and impact everything from, you know, the staffing profession to to human resources and everything else. What's not going to go away is the mental health and well-being of those individuals in the roles, and we haven't been doing anything, well much of anything, about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I like that. I think I actually just saw I didn't print out the article or anything but I saw an article today that etiquette classes are becoming like a corporate thing, that they're sending people to it. So it's not a con converse with anybody.
Speaker 1:It's so funny you bring that up. We're actually I'm actually creating a business etiquette class as well, because it is a massive problem. The ability to to communicate especially. Yeah, and not only a manner that other people will respect, but make them feel you know, okay, to be around you, not scared of you or to not be. You know. Communication is an absolute key. We don't spend enough time on it with with young people. They don't know how to do it well at all, yeah, and most adults don't either, for that matter. But yeah, it's, it's just being polite. Civility in the workplace I read a study not too long ago that it is the number of cases being reported to human resources and all of this around. We have a civility problem in the United States and in the world and it is bowled over and seeped over and gotten into business, and now business has to find a way to fix it.
Speaker 1:See, we're not doing, we're not. Go to buy a Porsche. Every one of those parts on that Porsche have been quality inspected before it's put together into the Porsche, right, and it's before you buy. And you'll see little tags and you're saying you know, companies are around, they make door frames and all types of things, and they've got QC people like ants running all over the place inspecting everything. Human beings, though, are just expected to show up to work and first day or to that interview and be absolutely perfect. Doesn't happen that way. No one's QC in the human, no one's getting them ready for that final ride, to getting them ready to walk in your door.
Speaker 2:Interesting. You know I talk about Dave Ramsey a lot but I'm a big fan of a lot of things that he does. His hiring process Are you familiar with it? I'm not Really interesting. He's one of those like Take time to hire but quick to fire kind of people Right. But his hiring process is at first, you know, there's the standard technical Can you do the job? That's like a you know typical hour, maybe 30 minute interview. After that it's just calls, like laid-back calls with the people that you'd be working with, with the team, like hey, what do you do for work? What do you do not at work, like with your family? Like right you that with the Hiring manager, with the whole team, and then from there you have to bring your spouse to Like a dinner.
Speaker 2:Wow with the team, with the hiring manager, and you basically hit it off like get to know the families, and then you go back. It takes about 90 days and then they say yes or no.
Speaker 1:Wow, I wasn't aware of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to me. I think that's really cool because you know the person. I think, like they make it clear that it's like we know this person's a cultural fit Right, we can teach them the job if it's not like up to par technically, but Culturally it works.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, we and it's good to hear things like that actually, because you know We've got, we've had so much degree inflation over the years and where you don't see, you see people, you know you'll see the most mundane job or the most simplistic job put out there must have a bachelor's degree. Really, for what you know to push a broom. Get out of here. I mean you've. You know, stop it already. You, you've that starting to subside and you're hearing this now everyone's going skills-based. Oh, we're gonna stop, we're gonna start ignoring so much over here on the education and ensure that we get more people that are more rounded and also not can only perform the job, but Physically and mentally, technically, physically mentally, however, but being there, being able to show up as a positive Human being and make a cause a positive part of me. Contribution is where it's at. I mean, like we, like you just said, you can teach most skills. Yeah, of course you can't. You know Airline pilot and heart surgeon are out. You know we're not gonna. You know we're not gonna give you a run at that one for 90 days, but you know it's, it's. That's where we are and I think that we have reached a. You know, remember, they'll book tipping the tipping point.
Speaker 1:Yep, we're at that, we're, and I also call it the Stupid movie. It was years ago. They were floating around out there on the boat and it's a perfect storm. Okay, we're in a perfect storm of stupid right now. I have never, I have never in my life seen so many things Going on and so much emphasis placed upon things that do not matter. Yeah, into the day. I love that. It's ridiculous, yeah, and we need to pull back and get a little bit more, little bit more self-aware and less self-absorbed and look at these things through a different lens. If we're going to make the difference that we claim and proclaim we wish to make, we better start doing it in a different way, because how we're doing it now is not working.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I truly believe that.
Speaker 2:I think another aspect of this whole diversity thing, like what makes you different We've become culturally so individualistic. Nobody thinks as part of a team anymore. It's like what can I get out of it? Nobody, then that give greatly is one of like the phrases I use regularly in on this podcast like that and the whole concept is based on like if you're gonna do anything Worth doing, do it.
Speaker 2:Like, give greatly, if it's your time, resources, energy, right money, whatever the case is, do it, and do it from the heart of like you don't expect anything. This is just me like. Giving yeah, and I think people would be surprised like it's hard to get yourself to do it, but once after the fact it's done, you feel so great.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, when you're giving back, yeah, you're, you're, you're getting more. You know we were, and I've been blessed to be able to do a lot more of that, because I truly that's what I want to do even more of as my career progresses. My job is pretty simple actually. My job is just to make the people around me better, and when I do that, I actually feed off of that, so it's a big deal to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said one hour, all right. So just just to kind of wrap things up, I want to Ask you this question yes, why do you think so many people are dissatisfied at work?
Speaker 1:because I think that I Think that most people are dissatisfied at work because they're dissatisfied with themselves. You can't go to work and Not be happy with you. I think most of these people actually, when I sit and talk and I have done this just quickly they're more dissatisfied with themselves than they are with their work environment. Okay, I think that before you make a determination that you hate your job or your job sucks, you ought to go look in a mirror and see if you're bringing your best self to work every day. You're contributing as you should. You know, everyone wants to talk about, about the manager, which, most of the time, they deserve it. But in fact, what are you doing to help that human being become a better manager? Or are you just gonna bitch about the bad manager? I mean honestly? I mean you've got two choices there, don't you? Yeah, so what are you doing? What are you bringing? So I think, I think, to answer your question, there's more unhappiness at work because people are more unhappy with themselves.
Speaker 2:I like that. I think I had a different take. My whole thing was I Think that we're created to fulfill a unique purpose or unique role in this world, and I think that the great challenge, one of the great challenges of life, is to find that purpose.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course and one of the previous guests I had on this show. I've always heard drive is being a good thing. He's like you know it can be, but drive like Jesus drove demons out but he called people to him. So that's why I was like the term calling like there's a big sense in Determining your calling and finding your calling I think people get into jobs to satisfy other people.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm sure I'm guilty of that In some points where it's like you know I did this, you know because maybe it makes more money. But it's not really who I am.
Speaker 1:Is? Is every job supposed to help you fulfill your purpose? Isn't that more of a personal thing? Don't we take jobs sometimes because we just got to have a job? And it may be if we Treated that a little differently and saw it. Not disagreeing with you, because I do, but my, my, I see purpose is much grander than that. I don't think it's an employer's place to create my purpose.
Speaker 1:For me, I believe it's my job to bring my purpose to work. And when I bring my whole self, when I bring that, that best self out referred to, you bring your best self to work and then you're trying, you're even if you're sweeping floors You're the best damn floor sweeper they've ever had and you start buffing floors and somebody walks by and asks you about it and you can give them a lesson on buffing floors. You're treating that job like it matters and you're treating the people around you like it matters. It may not fulfill you like. Well, my purpose is I. One day I want to knit sweaters for penguins and so I want to take them and and and clothes, penguins and sweaters. How the hell are you going to do that at the, at the quickie mark? I mean, it's not going to happen for you, baby, yeah, so pull back a little bit. Understand that. And also, I don't know this, but my purpose has not remained the same Through my whole career life.
Speaker 1:I can tell you, at 20 my purpose was a lot different than it is at nearly 56.
Speaker 2:So it changes it changes.
Speaker 1:So you just work on you man. You just bring the best, your best version of you to work and then you don't expect, have too high of expectations of everyone else. You make them have. The only expectation that should have is he's gonna come in tomorrow. He or she's gonna come in tomorrow, and I'm looking forward to them being even better, because that's every day. He's incrementally or she's incrementally better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so would you say or disagree that your work should not? I Would say that your work should align with what your purpose is at all the currently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, eventually, I mean, but once again, that may not be, that's a hard target, man. I mean, that may not be an immediacy, that's not gonna happen, like yeah, I'm not saying it's an overnight thing, no, or or you may take that job, thinking it does, and then your purpose aligns differently, or it changes, but not. I think that at some point in your career, certainly you should be working with an employer and and if, if you, you know, choose to be an employee of someone, then you should work with someone who respects that purpose and is helping you fulfill it. The people that work with me right now. Our purpose is such.
Speaker 1:I had my, you know, my sales and Professional tell me yesterday, zach, he said, you know, I sort of we're talking at lunch and he said, you know, this Fulfills my, I enjoy doing what I do because I like helping people. So it is, it is aligning well with his purpose. But that's where he is right now in his journey. And I like the fact that we align, because now I, you know, when you it aligns with your purpose, you are giving your best even more. So, yes, it should at some point, but it's not always going to and we just have to be, have to be understanding of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I and how did? How can let's just say, if it's not quick question, if it's not immediately, maybe who's to say that you, by showing up with your best self and having that purpose, that doesn't bleed over. That's happened to me before. Great employees, great people, always help organizations navigate to where they need to be. That's a wonderful thing to do. So just focus on you, man, and you'll be all right. Dude, just be a best you and just treat everybody good and don't be an asshole. You weren't you, you weren't, you weren't. You were often another world over there.
Speaker 2:Taking notes got him already as a, as a word of parting wisdom. What would you say to the young Mike Frazier listening to this? To that, say, 20 to 25 year old Mike Frazier?
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't get married as much, well, as much. No, I'm joking. I would say to that young Mike Frazier be a little bit more patient, brother. Just yeah, patient, don't. Don't. It's not gonna happen overnight and you are Learning every day, learning, roll with it, grow with it. But yeah, that's what I'd say to 25 year old Mike is, hey, man, slow down in the second thing and say stop. You know, I'm Stopping married so much. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2:Like that it aligns with the whole. Like you know, something slow is maybe a little bit more solid and foundational. There you go.
Speaker 1:There you go, look at you and you got poetic on me. Yeah, I had to break back. Thank you, tie it up.
Speaker 2:Mike Frazier, why don't you take the floor and just kind of plug all your stuff and Listen.
Speaker 1:I just want to plug the people around me now. I really appreciate you all listening in. If you're listening to me, rambel on, and I hope you didn't cut off before now. But peak talent, capital solutions, peak tcscom go over there, check it out and Basically that is no more than the grand experiment and helping you find who you need to be and where you would like to work. And you talk about purpose. It's in. We involve ourselves in that as well. It has been an experiment because I started it and it's just grown in magnitude, but it's wider, deeper, more solid. So head over there, work plus brain. You need a little bit of this groovy. Go on there, call me, text me, do whatever. And with teetop for kids, we're bringing that out soon, bringing it back, and you'll be, you'll be getting an invite for that. So yeah, but other than that, I just say you can find me at mrf wincom and if you go there, mrf win WINcom, you find all the stuff I do. Go ahead over there and check it out.
Speaker 2:Perfect, yeah, I'll take all that stuff and the show notes for this. So, yeah, they can find you there, like Frazier appreciate it, man. Thank you so much for your time. Indeed, brothers, thank you.
